General Motors stupidity astounds me.

"pip bip - choose Corrour" (hhgttg69)
02/08/2016 at 03:01 • Filed to: GM, Opel, vauxhall, Holden, daewoo, GMDAT, GM-Korea, Chevrolet, 12667194, 12670058, UPF64R

both Oil Filters have AC-Delco number of UPF64R yet two seperate GM 8-digit part numbers , 12667194 and 12670058.

both made in U.S.A. therefore both came out of same factory.

WHY!?!?!?!?!?

DISCUSSION (38)

Sovereign, Purveyor of Coupes > pip bip - choose Corrour
02/08/2016 at 03:06

Check valve? Overall length?

pip bip - choose Corrour > Sovereign, Purveyor of Coupes
02/08/2016 at 03:07

if that was the case they wouldn’t have the same AC-Delco part number of UPF64R

Sovereign, Purveyor of Coupes > pip bip - choose Corrour
02/08/2016 at 03:09

Tis true. I think car manufacturers like to make these things complicated on purpose sometimes.

I Will Always Be The Honey Badger > pip bip - choose Corrour
02/08/2016 at 03:27

Some sort of cross-reference happening.

DrScientist > pip bip - choose Corrour
02/08/2016 at 03:27

maybe they were used on different models in different classes. so... when used on a cadillac, use the PN with the more expensive catalog price, and when used on a chevy, use the less expensive?

maybe?

also, how do we know they came from the same factory? is there only one ac delco supply factory in the us?

pip bip - choose Corrour > DrScientist
02/08/2016 at 03:31

i expect there is only one factory for oil filters , unless someone in the USA knows different?

DrScientist > pip bip - choose Corrour
02/08/2016 at 03:33

im in the u.s., but dont know for sure, but for a giant company like ac delco, making parts for an even more giant company like gm, i wouldnt be surprised if there were not different/multiple ac delco factories. or even, that ac delco farmed out the filter manufacturing to several smaller factories.

Bowtie_Guy > pip bip - choose Corrour
02/08/2016 at 05:12

I used to be a GM Parts guy. What happened is that the part was updated to a new number due to any number of changes (different gasket, finer media etc...) I’ve seen GM parts with over 5 cross references due to updates. An aftermarket company (like ac delco) usually only builds one filter for a particular application so while it’s a cross reference for both of those OEM numbers it’s specs will match the newer/better part

The filter you have there is for a 5.3 Ls/ vortec motor & that filter spans 15 years of trucks so it’s normal for there to be an updated # or 2.

pip bip - choose Corrour > Bowtie_Guy
02/08/2016 at 05:22

the 12670058 fits the new Holden Spark , and the 12667194 is for Vauxhall / Opel Viva.

both current model cars.

Bowtie_Guy > pip bip - choose Corrour
02/08/2016 at 05:23

There are actually several manufacturers of filters in the US. As far as I know GM & AC delco use Champion Laboratories for most of their filters. Some other large manufacturers are Wix. Baldwin Filters. Fleetguard (a division of Cummins diesel) & Donaldson (they make OEM filters for a lot of Semi trucks & Ag/construction equipment)

pip bip - choose Corrour > Bowtie_Guy
02/08/2016 at 05:32

how many factories do Champion Labs have?

i’d put money on it they’ll only have one.

Bowtie_Guy > pip bip - choose Corrour
02/08/2016 at 06:00

That’s probably why I had a hell of a time finding those cross references lol. I actually may have screwed up the cross reference. It appears that international parts have different numbers from their state side parts. Assuming those cars have the same 1.2L engine as the Chevy Spark my filter number is 96985730. That’s the newest OEM GM number. What engines do those cars have??

pip bip - choose Corrour > Bowtie_Guy
02/08/2016 at 06:03

96985730 is for 11-15 Spark , not 16 on.

aus spec ones have a 1.4l

Bowtie_Guy > pip bip - choose Corrour
02/08/2016 at 06:24

Hmmm. Okay well apparently these are the newest numbers then & the only cross I’ve found is to a PF48 which is an LS Truck oil filter. (It also fits gm 2.0l & 3.6l high feature engines which are related to the 1.4) the only reason I think it could be isthat international numbers carry different part numbers & the reason why we have 3 different numbers (both of yours & my 89017524) is because they are filters manufacturered for 3 different regions. Holden is Australia obviously. Vauxhall/Opel are Europe & then Chevy in the US.

Scott > pip bip - choose Corrour
02/08/2016 at 06:26

Not at all surprising. Many corporations have Copy Exact requirements. that means if there is any difference that could have any effect on any thing, it must have a separate part number. AC Delco may not have the copy exact requirement in their part numbering, but if GM does than it will get a different number due to those differences. It could be as minor as a different flow rating on the filter element, or a different temperature rating on the o-ring.

Bowtie_Guy > pip bip - choose Corrour
02/08/2016 at 06:29

& weather or not my cross is accurate (it’s very hard to cross numbers for non US market vehicles outside of GM’s database) I’m willing to bet that’s the reason why you have to different numbers because one is “technically” for a European market car & the other is for the Australian market. Even though they are the same thing

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > pip bip - choose Corrour
02/08/2016 at 06:30

My guess is that if you worked the parts counter at a GM distributor one part number or the other would show up in a search, depending upon the application but would lead you to the same shelf in the warehouse. Probably also note any other part numbers related to the same part(s). I wouldn’t give it a second thought if Delco says it’s the same thing.

pip bip - choose Corrour > Bowtie_Guy
02/08/2016 at 06:31

we use to have 89017524 , they for whatever reason changed to 19303975 which is PF48E , e for Economy i’m assuming.

plus there is also PF64 (no U or R prefix/suffix) 12640445 , for the Craptiva V6 , why that isn’t suitable i will never know.

pip bip - choose Corrour > Bowtie_Guy
02/08/2016 at 06:33

but there’s no need for it , it’s just stupid.

how hard is it to have one number globally?

deekster_caddy > pip bip - choose Corrour
02/08/2016 at 06:34

I would suspect a revision or minor change year to year. Fits the same cars, has the same filter element inside, but some very minor change that doesn’t affect the application. Therefore, same ACD number, different OEM number.

I’d be curious to see the drawings that go along with the two and try to find the difference.

boxrocket > pip bip - choose Corrour
02/08/2016 at 06:49

After reading the comments, that seems supremely messed up, even for GM. I’d expect it for VAG, though.

Could one use a rule of thumb that the highest (newest) number is most accurate?

This is yet another example of why I’d never willingly own a gm vehicle.

pip bip - choose Corrour > boxrocket
02/08/2016 at 06:52

but the both numbers are used currently.

-this space for rent- > pip bip - choose Corrour
02/08/2016 at 06:53

Probably used to be two different delco parts and delco consolidated into one. It would cost GM more money to revise all their paperwork than to just maintain the two part numbers. Or GM doesn’t know/care about it at all.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > pip bip - choose Corrour
02/08/2016 at 07:23

Because GM not only hates service techs, they also hate the parts desk.

pip bip - choose Corrour > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
02/08/2016 at 07:30

can’t star this enough!!

(the “new” next generation GM EPC has already turned into a shitfight.)

Mattbob > pip bip - choose Corrour
02/08/2016 at 07:43

Probably enough of a technical update to need a new GM model number but still functionally the same so they keep the part number so people can find the part for their car.

DoYouEvenShift > pip bip - choose Corrour
02/08/2016 at 08:18

At least its a spin on filter. Not one those fucked up cartridge filters everyone is using now. Now that is stupid.

TFSIVTEC drivesavolvo > pip bip - choose Corrour
02/08/2016 at 08:18

It could signify the difference between retail and bulk packaging

pip bip - choose Corrour > TFSIVTEC drivesavolvo
02/08/2016 at 08:19

very good point!

Cajun Ginger > DoYouEvenShift
02/08/2016 at 08:24

I like cartridge filters. I think they're better for the environment. Less materials used. Now I hate when the last tech over tightened it.

My bird IS the word > DoYouEvenShift
02/08/2016 at 08:26

I think the only reason everyone is switching to cartridge filters is so there isn’t incompatibility issues. When I had my 944 only one company made ones that worked, the rest would lose the engine’s oil prime. Grinding ensued. They are definitely a shitty solution though.

Sweet Trav > pip bip - choose Corrour
02/08/2016 at 08:29

I can actually see a difference in the stamping. Look at the lip under the rubber washer.

Pretty much, if any significant characteristic changes on a GM part, the PN will change. They mandated this after the ignition switch debacle.

DoYouEvenShift > Cajun Ginger
02/08/2016 at 08:30

Environment? Maybe. I bet a lot of them end up in the trash can though. So, if disposed of properly, maybe.

DoYouEvenShift > My bird IS the word
02/08/2016 at 08:33

GM is going back to spin on filters on engines that used those previously. Ecotec 4s used to be cartridge, now they are spin on again. Some 3.6s as well. LS engine, ecotec, 3.6, all seem to use the same filter.

Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car > DoYouEvenShift
02/08/2016 at 08:59

Seriously. So happy I have someone at the shop do do them, so I only have to do 1-2 oil changes a week usually.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > pip bip - choose Corrour
02/08/2016 at 09:08

They also think that 65 foot pounds is a perfectly reasonable torque for a drain plug on an oil pan.

I’m fairly certain that there are no fewer than 6 part numbers for said oil pan and 3 for the plug itself, considering that kind of torque generally strips plugs and threads.

CaptDale - is secretly British > Bowtie_Guy
02/08/2016 at 17:55

Yup, hell GM just updated a part number because RIM didn’t cover the old number, but does the new one. So instead of just adding the old number to RIM, they changed it... WTF?

jdrgoat - Ponticrack? > pip bip - choose Corrour
02/08/2016 at 18:45

I read about this in Car Guys Versus Bean Counters. Well, not oil filters explicitly, but GM parts. GM had worn down their relationship with supplies so badly (that’ll happen when management gives you a no-excuses budget) that anywhere they could charge GM more for something that already existed, they did. As someone else mentioned, this did lead to parts costing more for a Cadillac for no reason.

In fact, even when GM started ramping up on quality (finally, and I say that as a GM guy), the suppliers at first thought it was a typo and kept sending the poorer quality tolerance parts. Didn’t even call to double-check first, that’s what they had come to expect.